David Kadarauch
David Kadarauch
SESSION #5: Dead Man Walking
FEATURING: David Kadarauch, Principal Cello, 1974-2022
Interview conducted by: Dr. Clifford (Kip) Cranna, Dramaturg Emeritus, on 06/27/2025
(transcript read time ~ 8 minutes)
DAVID KADARAUCH [DK]: I’m David Kadarauch. At the time of Dead Man Walking, and for quite a few years before and after, I was principal cellist in the Opera Company orchestra. And I can remember a few things about the premiere. It has been a quarter of a century, so it’s a bit sketchy, but I’ll try to help.
KIP CRANNA [KC]: All right, and I’m Kip Cranna. I’m called Dramaturg Emeritus now at San Francisco Opera. And it’s so nice to talk to you, David, to see you after quite a while.
DK: Yes.
KC: Before we get into Dead Man Walking specifically, say a little bit about your own involvement with San Francisco Opera. When did you actually first start with the Company?
DK: I started in 1974, in the cello section, and then in 1975 I moved up to principal, and played principal until, I believe, 2022, when I retired. So that was 47 or 48 years as principal.
KC: Wow, that’s quite a career.
DK: Yes.
KC: You were involved with quite a few world premieres during that time, and if you started in ’74 then you would have played the world premiere of Angle of Repose in 1976.
DK: I remember it very well, yes.
KC: So that was the --
DK: Andrew Imbrie.
KC: That’s right, a Bay Area composer, and I think the only world premiere that happened during that time period. We started doing more of them later on, going into the ’80s and particularly the ’90s. When we announced the premiere for the commission of Dead Man Walking, which was middle of the ’90s, before a production that was going to happen in 2000, did you remember anything about that? Do you remember reacting to the idea that somebody in the PR department was going to write an opera?
DK: I think there was some reaction in the orchestra. Many people said, you know, “Who is this fellow?” And, “He works upstairs in administration. Is he also a composer?” There probably was some skepticism, yes, but, you know, it all worked out. (laughs)
KC: Yeah, I’m curious about when you first saw the score. Patrick Summers was conducting, and --
DK: Yes.
KC: -- any recollections about first...? I know that orchestra members don’t see this music right out of the blue at the first rehearsal; they typically look at it in advance, and practice. What were your initial impressions? Do you recall anything about your first encounter with the music?
DK: I remember being, first of all, rather relieved that it wasn’t extraordinarily difficult. You know, so many contemporary composers, it seems they think that when they write difficult parts, that makes their music better somehow, but Jake Heggie didn’t do that. He kept things playable, and idiomatic for the instruments. I remember that was a very strong impression.
KC: I was thinking about when the singers got involved, but Jake has, himself, talked about influences on him. He’s sometimes been criticized as being derivative, meaning there are influences by other composers, which he’s been honest about: Bernstein, Britten, Sondheim, and so forth. When you were playing the music, did you make associations like that? Did it sound like somebody else to you?
DK: Not really. It sounded like a certain genre. I mean, in that sense, every composer is derivative. Beethoven was derived from Mozart, and Strauss from Wagner. So that part of it doesn’t bother me. I remember thinking, this is writing that goes down easy, that will appeal to the audience, it’s not difficult to listen to, and as far as I was concerned that was a plus.
KC: Certainly a cry from Angle of Repose, which I remember seeing and being a very difficult piece to play.
DK: Yes. Yes, no, this was not difficult to play. The cello part was very, you know, idiomatic, moderately difficult, very well written. I had no complaints about it.
KC: Jake’s a pianist, of course, by profession, and most composers do play the keyboard, but you found that the writing for strings was idiomatic in the way that you would hope to have.
DK: I think so. I think so. My impression was he set out to make it very playable, and not thorny.
KC: (laughs) Oh, what about working with Patrick Summers, who was, of course, introducing this piece to the orchestra? Do you recall anything about the relationship with him, and how those rehearsals were conducted?
DK: I remember him being very enthusiastic and committed to the piece, and conducting it very well. He knew it inside out. And I’ve said before my strongest memories of him at the San Francisco Opera are conducting this opera, and his many fine Handel performances. Handel was sort of a specialty of his.
KC: Right. Kind of an unusual combination --
DK: Yes.
KC: -- contemporary and the Baroque. I’m curious if you had any sense from the orchestra pit -- of course, you can’t see much that’s going on onstage, so it’s hard to judge what the production’s like; you can hear the singers, of course, but did you have a sense, as opening night approached, whether this piece was going to be a success or not? Did you have any sort of second sense?
DK: I thought it would be well-received. I didn’t really have any idea that it would be the huge success that it was. It would be rude to say I was surprised, but I was happy that it was a big success, you know? It seemed to really register with the audience.
KC: And I’m curious about -- this would be a question in general when you’re listening to the singers onstage -- I suppose you really have to concentrate so much that you can’t allow yourself to get caught up emotionally in what’s being sung, but do you ever find that happening with a piece like this?
DK: There were three scenes in particular that I really related to. One, of course, is the opening prologue. It’s so dramatic, when the crime takes place. I thought it was a very nice touch to have the car radio playing, and, you know, that was a very powerful scene. And then the scene in De Rocher’s cell, where they first really connect. The barriers started to break down when they both discovered that they were fans of Elvis, and she had been to an Elvis concert, and that helped to open the floodgate, and that scene made an impression on me. And the last scene that made an impression was, of course, the death scene, where, I believe, she was there while he was being executed. And even though we couldn’t see what was going on, I mean, we knew very well what was going on, and that was very powerful. And the rest of the opera -- I mean, it’s been a quarter of a century; I obviously don’t remember every scene, or every singer, but those three things stand out, especially in my mind.
KC: Well, that says a lot, because to have those kinds of memories after such a time really means they did make an impression, and they did on me, as well. I would share the same sort of thoughts, having been administratively involved in getting the recording made (laughs) of the song that came over the radio. But that, too, was unusual. Actually, there were two songs, because they change the channel on the radio, and first is a rock song, and then there’s a kind of sax bluesy thing that happens.
DK: I didn’t remember. Thank you. (laughs)
KC: Yes, I remember dealing with the recording companies about all that. But it’s fascinating to me that you remember that, as well. And, yes, I was wondering what you and your colleagues, when... We get sort of a rock-and-roll moment when Sister Helen and the prisoner, Joseph De Rocher, start talking about Elvis, and she reminisces about the concert. I’m curious what you thought as that music came out in the orchestra rehearsals. (laughs)
DK: I thought it was very appropriate for the plot. It didn’t bother me at all. I thought it was fine. That’s part of the story.
KC: Just a little bit of pop culture sneaking into the opera. You played a lot of world premieres, and have read a lot of new music, I know, not just opera but various other kinds of things, and where would this fit into the realm of sort of difficulty or virtuosity? Would you say it’s on the easier side than the harder side?
DK: I think it’s on the easier, more accessible side. To me, it was sort of a hybrid, almost, between American musical theater and grand opera -- I mean, more on the side of grand opera, but the accessibility of it and the easy writing reminded me of American musical theater.
KC: Have you possibly seen this opera at any other place, or heard it? Was that the only time that you actually encountered?
DK: I’ve watched excerpts. I think there are excerpts from it, from various productions, on YouTube. I’d looked to see if there was a full performance on YouTube. There’s an audio performance, but I didn’t find one that had the video, too. Do you know if there’s one?
KC: Yes, actually, it’s interesting that you bring that up. There was for a while an HD complete performance from Madrid, from Spain, with Joyce DiDonato, but that wasn’t up for very long. I think it was maybe a pirated version taken off of Spanish television and put up there. And I told Jake about that, (laughs) that it was on there, and he said, “Oh, that’s a problem, because the Met’s going to do their HD version in cinemas, and they’re not going to want that sort of competition.” So, yes, that is one thing we lack is a complete video. It’s been done in so many places, but I’m sure there are lots of videos that exist, but just one that could actually be commercially used we don’t have. You played other music by Jake during the time that you were at the Opera. Do you have other recollections about his other operas?
DK: We did Moby-Dick a few years later, but I did not play that one. That was an opera off for me. I do recall playing a piece at Christmastime in Berkeley by him. I don’t recall the title of it.
KC: The title ended up being Three Decembers.
DK: Ah, thank you. Yes, I did play that -- it called for one cello -- and I remember that very well. And then I’ve heard the cello concerto that he wrote for Emil Miland, although I haven’t played it. But so those are really the three things that I’ve heard.
KC: And when we did another Christmas opera, It’s a Wonderful Life, had you retired by that point? Were you still in the orchestra then?
DK: I believe I had either retired or, again -- we rotate certain operas off, and I did not play that one.
KC: All right, so, interesting that you mention the cello concerto, which I’ve heard, as well, which is, I would say, not particularly easy. Not being a cellist, I couldn’t judge, but what was your feeling (laughs) about it?
DK: I thought it was difficult, but not one of the super difficult pieces in the repertoire. Again, I never tried to play it or saw the music; this is just based on hearing it, you know. But you can get some good idea from that.
KC: In your experience, in those long years in the Opera orchestra, did you like the challenge of playing the brand new pieces that no one had ever played before?
DK: I did, because most of them were super challenging, and some of them I’m not sure I would have wanted to sit through, but they were always good to play. They were challenging. So I enjoyed that part of it. The Dead Man Walking I think I would have enjoyed sitting through, so...
KC: Yeah, that is a wonderful -- well, not wonderful, but a wonder -- that orchestra musicians play all these pieces that they never get to see. I’m sometimes feeling a little sorry about that. Are there other shows that you wish you had been able to see, rather than just playing them?
DK: Oh, we get to see some of the... We always take, during a... If we have four bars’ rest, we stand up quickly in the pit and see, and we get a pretty good idea of what’s going on. But, actually, I come at it from the opposite point of view of most people: they look at the drama as the main thing, and the music supporting that. For instance, in Wagner’s case, I regarded the music as most important, and I’m happy that the drama inspired him to write the music. To me, the music is always the most important, being a musician.
KC: I have a recollection of... This is not the first time I’ve interviewed you. You may have forgotten but some years ago I interviewed you, maybe 20 years ago I interviewed you for some sort of donor event, and I asked you about what you thought the main difference was, based on your experience playing symphonic music, as well as opera, what you really thought the biggest distinction was, and, as you may recall, you told me that the main thing is that at the opera you don’t have to shine your shoes. Do you remember saying that? (laughter)
What I’m curious about, kind of along that line, is, obviously, at the Symphony, you’re the main event, you’re center stage, you’re the focus of attention, whereas at the Opera, that isn’t always the case. There are some big orchestral moments where that’s all we are focused on, but... What sort of feeling did that give you, when you know you’re part of a whole but not the main focus?
DK: Well, I played for years in the SF Symphony, and even more years in the Opera, and, to me, the Opera was always more exciting. The audiences reacted more. There was true excitement. And so I didn’t mind being in the pit at all, and in some ways it’s better. You’re always fighting the nerve problem, trying not to get nervous, and at least people aren’t looking at you; they’re looking at the stage. And that is a plus. That helps a lot.
KC: Yeah, I would imagine that would. I hadn’t thought about an old pro like you ever being nervous.
DK: When you’re all alone, playing a concerto, and there’s a couple of thousand people staring at you, yes, you get very nervous. When you’re sitting in the pit, and they’re looking over your head at the stage, it’s better.
KC: Right, takes the pressure off a little bit.
DK: Yes.
KC: Do you feel -- I’m sure this is true, but I would love to hear you describe it -- that orchestra musicians in an opera develop a kind of a sixth sense listening to the singers onstage, and trying to anticipate their needs? I know the conductor doesn’t always give you exactly what you need to match up with what you’re hearing. Do you find that you have to work on that skill to really be listening, not only watching the conductor but listening to what’s happening on the stage?
DK: Well, I remember when a very fine cellist became principal cello of the New York Philharmonic, and he hadn’t had that much orchestral experience, and he said the first thing that the old pros told him was don’t necessarily play with what you see; play with what you hear. And in opera, that’s especially important. The beat can serve as a general guideline, and hopefully things sync up, the gears sync, but sometimes if the beat isn’t exactly synced with what a singer’s doing, I would always follow the singer, in the interest of good ensemble. It’s more like playing chamber music, and you have to keep your wits about you more in opera. In symphony, they start the tempo, and things don’t vary that much, and in many symphonies you could almost do it without a conductor -- maybe sounds sacrilegious to say -- but in opera that’s impossible. So it is more difficult than symphonic playing.
KC: So your senses have to be a little more acute, your attention level a little higher in terms of what you’re hearing outside the pit, right?
DK: I think so, yes.
KC: You live quite far from San Francisco now. You’re in Mendocino, is that right?
DK: Mendocino, yes. That’s where we’re spending our retirement, and we like it very much.
KC: I’m totally understanding of that. It’s a great place. Do you ever come back to hear the Opera?
DK: I haven’t been. There are a few operas I would like to hear again. I understand there’s a chance of them doing Parsifal sometime soon. I’d like to --
KC: A production coming up this fall, yes.
DK: I would love to hear that. I mean, I love them, but over 48 years I played them so many times that it’s not really necessary for me to … (laughter) I’ve always been a Wagner buff, so I would like to come and see a Wagner opera.
KC: You’ve not minded those Wagnerian acts.
DK: Well, I wish they were a bit shorter, but... (laughter)
KC: Well, Parsifal chimes in at about five hours, so you’ll get your opportunity to sit through something if you decide to come.
DK: Okay. No, I was just saying maybe I’ll come down and see Parsifal. I’d like to.
KC: Yeah. I’ll be there myself. I’m looking forward to it. Anything else you want to share with us about your recollections of Dead Man Walking before we sign off?
DK: Well, the last thing is, actually, one of my strongest memories is what happened after the premiere. I remember we were all invited to the party in the basement level of the Opera House, and I remember that actually being very exciting. You know, the real Sister Prejean was there, and the whole cast, and the orchestra, and a lot of photos were taken, and there was a spark in the room. I remember that. And that’s when I first started to think, well, this is something. It’s going to be a real hit.
KC: Yes, well, a lot of us were having those same thoughts that evening, (laughs) not realizing quite what the hit we had on our hands. David Kadarauch, thank you so much for talking with us. It’s really a pleasure to see you again.
DK: It’s been my pleasure, too, Kip. Thank you.