Donita Volkwijn
Donita Volkwijn
SESSION #5: Dead Man Walking
FEATURING: Donita Volkwijn, DMW role: Mrs. Charlton (2000); Adler Fellow 1999, 2000; Merolina 1998
Interview conducted by: Dr. Clifford (Kip) Cranna, Dramaturg Emeritus, on 07/15/2025
(transcript read time ~ 9 minutes)
DONITA VOLKWIJN [DV]: My name is Donita Volkwijn. I was an Adler Fellow in 1999 and 2000, and I was able to workshop the Dead Man Walking show at the time, and then also be involved in the production eventually when it went on to the world premiere.
KIP CRANNA [KC]: And I’m Kip Cranna. I’m called Dramaturg Emeritus now at San Francisco Opera, and I was involved in the original commissioning of Dead Man Walking. So nice to talk to you, Donita. It’s been quite a while.
DV: It really has, yeah.
KC: So before we get into Dead Man Walking specifically, maybe you can just fill us in a little bit on how you came to San Francisco Opera, and how that all came about.
DV: You know, I often think that I don’t actually live my life; I just stumble from thing to thing, and then, in the meantime, I happen to live the life (laughs) that happens. I had been studying music for a while. I was living in New York, and was doing the audition rounds, and came into the Merola [Merola Opera Program, training] audition, and really found out later that one of the things that may have kept me out was that they thought that I might be taller than the tenor. But I have delusions of grandeur. I think I’m five-ten, but I’m five-six-and-a-quarter, and I think they saw that. And so I was (laughs) able to do Merola, and then I was invited to become an Adler Fellow, which was just one of the most joyous occasions I can remember.
KC: I know that, as an Adler Fellow, they keep you very busy. You’re doing all sorts of things, from masterclasses to what we used to call Brown Bag performances – concerts here or there, and, of course, covering roles and singing roles, so I know you were active.
DV: I remember, I covered Ruth Ann Swenson one time, which was madness. We don’t have the same voice. I covered Renée Fleming. And there were just some times that I would sit in the Opera House and marvel that this was my job, listening to some of the best singers of the world, and being onstage with some of the best singers of the world. And growing up as an opera singer in San Francisco, in the early 2000s, was wild. It was amazing.
KC: So a little bit about the experience of workshopping Dead Man Walking: you were in that cast that workshopped it the summer before, the year before it premiered, and you sang the role of Sister Rose, who was Sister Helen’s sort of best buddy.
What was it like when you were asked to be part of this workshop, or had you ever done a world premiere before, or a new piece?
DV: No, and this is what I mean by stumbling into some really amazing (laughs) things that happen. So, part of the work that I do now is in social justice, and this was one of those things where my interests and my world sort of combined into this really extraordinary experience.
First of all, the music, Jake Heggie, come on, man. There were moments where I just remember somebody -- I think it was Susan Graham -- stopped in the middle of something and was like, “Jake, I can’t sing this. What are you supposed to do?” And he would go, “Oh, okay, well, let me... What about this?” And, in the workshop we would be testing things. You know, and I’m not somebody who can just adjust. I have to learn something very, very diligently, and so then I have to take it outside to change anything. Anyway, but just to see... And Terrence [McNally, librettist] was there, too.
KC: That’s right.
DV: Yeah, and so, sometimes people would be like, “Oh, that’s a really hard vowel to sing in this register,” and then everybody would talk about it. We would sit around and listen to these conversations about this work of art being created. And so, just sitting in that room, you have no idea that you’re sitting in history. And then afterwards you’re like, did that happen? Was that a fever dream? It was just... It was remarkable. It was an amazing experience. The score itself was... I can’t remember. I think I might be mixing timelines, but it might have been at the same time that we were doing Louise, the Charpentier.
KC: Right.
DV: Which was the most difficult score I think I ever worked on. And so having Charpentier and Heggie at the same time, trying to learn both pieces, you know, as an Adler Fellow, and it was really interesting, going from France in that century to modern day America, or sort of modern day America, and just watching all of these artists that also have struggles with, “Wait, how do we count this?” or, “How does...? What?” Or, “I can’t sing over a French horn in that register,” (laughs) and having it be changed and adapted in real time.
KC: It’s fascinating to hear your experiences with that. I do remember some of the changes that came out of the workshop, mostly with regard to the role of Sister Helen, but you were obviously in the room more often than I was, and seeing lots of tinkering with the score as it went along.
DV: It was mostly for Sister Helen, because, I mean, she’s onstage for the entire show, except, I think, 12 minutes? Or... No -- it was a much shorter time like that. She had to have changes onstage. So, it was mostly changes for her. But yeah, it was really cool to have that happening right in front of us.
KC: Did you have direct interaction with Jake? Do you remember...?
DV: Oh, yeah. I mean, very lovely human. And I remember (laughs) I didn’t quite get the point at the beginning, because at the beginning of the show, the rape and murders is acted out onstage, and I was like, well, is that really the...? You know, do you really want to have that? Don’t you want to have a little mystery? And Jake was just so kind, and he was like, “No, no, that’s part of the story. We want people to know that there is no doubt about the guilt of these people. It is then the dilemma that comes through in the singing of it, and in the living of it, that is the important part, you know.” And it took me a minute to wrap my head around that, but, yeah, Jake, I mean, he... There was one note I... Jake would probably remember, but I kept singing a B-natural, and I think it was a B-flat, or vice versa, and I think to this day I could still not sing that note correctly, and I just remember being in a practice room with him, going, “It’s... (hums)” “That’s what I thought I was singing!” Bless his heart. I did it in Detroit, and somewhere else, too -- I don’t remember; it was years ago -- and he was there at those ones, as well. And so we did get a chance to talk about the roles, and talk about the opera, and how it had evolved.
KC: So you did the Sister Rose role in those other performances?
DV: Yeah. And it was one of those things where I missed out on being Sister Rose in the world premiere by ... Just one of those things, you know.
KC: But you had one of the other roles in the show.
DV: Yes, I can still... Here was my role: (singing) “I can’t tell you how I’ve prayed for one Sister Catherine.”
KC: (laughs) I remember that, because in Sister Helen’s school, the little kid, he’s made a potholder or something like that, right?
DV: Yes. Yes. And my little boy was giving me this potholder, and I was so grateful, grateful as parents are for the artwork that goes on the refrigerator, and it was a lovely juxtaposition of the horror that we had just scene in the opening scene, of these little children –
KC: Yeah, the feeling and cordiality that that second scene has.
DV: Yeah.
KC: In singing the role of Sister Rose, I’m curious about your feelings about the major scene she and Helen have, what I would call the forgiveness duet, where Sister Rose more or less counsels Helen on trying to find a way in her heart to forgive this prisoner’s horrible crime so that she can get close to him. Talk a little bit about that scene and how that was for you.
DV: Oh, yeah, I mean, I think I did both of the sisters -- Rose -- with Kris Jepson, and Kris, just the most kind and, just human person. And so singing across from her, I would often just be like, do not make me cry, woman, because if you make me cry, I can’t sing these notes that I’m supposed to be singing. Yeah, the opera, one of the fascinating things -- I experienced this in San Francisco, and then in the subsequent shows that I did -- I hope it’s okay to say this, but I am against the death penalty, have always been, have never... And I was so sure that this opera, and this story, everybody was going to see that, and believe that, and hear... But after, when we would be leaving the stage door, we’d encounter some of the theatergoers, and we would hear snippets of conversation, “See, I told you, I was right,” but it was from both sides. Both pro- and anti-death penalty folks were saying that this confirmed what they had believed, which I thought was fascinating, and also like a testament to the art that been created. I also, looking back at it now, I do wish there had... And I know you can’t tell a whole bunch of stories at the same time, but the legacy of mass incarceration in our country has really hit everybody, and being able to show something that was so horrible... I mean, I remember doing the execution scene, that it was very quiet. We would just hear the beep, beep, beep, mmm, you know, flatlining. And it was so quiet, we would hear people crying in the audience, which I was, again, amazed at the power of art, and the power of what a good narrative can do.
KC: I know that both Jake and Terrence were aiming for just exactly what you described, which is something that could be interpreted either way, really just exploring the humanity on either side of the issue. I talked with Cathy Cook about this, of course, who sang the role of -- she was the mother of the murdered boy. And she talked about the same thing you were just discussing, about the don’t make me cry moment, saying that you can’t go too far in terms of getting emotionally involved in the role. You have to stay distant enough that you can actually sing it.
DV: I mean, in a rehearsal room, you can absolutely indulge, because I think that’s one of the things an artist can do is to see how far we can go before we tip over into, I would say, self-indulgence, a little bit, because, (laughs) this happened in the sextet in Giovanni, as well, that I was all of a sudden just overtaken by this, oh my gosh, this woman has traveled across Spain, and he has, defiled her, and I just started crying, and it made for such a great scene, and then the next thing I had to sing was “Mi tradi,” and you cannot sing anything with your larynx up there, you know? So there were moments where... And because we’d had an opportunity to be with it, and to be in that room, and found moments of levity.
Pardon me as I go down a slight rabbit hole, but there’s this joke about a rope going into a bar, and saying, “I’d like to have a beer,” and the bartender’s like, “We don’t serve ropes.” And it goes on and on until he finally sort of squiggles his way around, and ruffles up the hair, and says, “I would like to have a beer,” and the bartender says, “We don’t serve ropes.” He says, “I’m not a rope; I’m a frayed knot.” In the score, Sister Helen, to the response to the father, I believe, of one of the murdered children, he asks her something, and she sings, (singing) “I’m afraid not.” (speaking) And I had told Kris that joke, and I would see in her score that she had written “a frayed knot.” And so those moments there, some of the most intense moments, when you’ve got a family, two families, that are confronting a woman who’s not even been a part of it, who is asking for forgiveness on behalf of this deeply flawed and troubled man, to know as that scene is happening that there was a little “I’m a frayed knot” in a score was just one of those things that added depth and humanity to a situation that, in my opinion, can be very -- that is inhumane.
KC: Did you have a feeling during rehearsals and on opening night that you were going to be part of a big success, or were you worried that this might be a flop?
DV: Well, you know, I was going through my own things at the moment, because, as I mentioned, I had been singing Sister Rose, and then I didn’t get to sing it in the world premiere, so I was having (laughs) my own slight meltdowns about that. And so my concern... I just didn’t know how it would be received, you know. I also did a world premiere on The Long Mile, about a soldier who comes back with a TBI. And again, something that we don’t often get to see people in houses like San Francisco who are watching a modern day, or something that they themselves may have experienced, and there are allegories to all of the operas we sing, obviously, but to see issues that are facing us right now, to an audience that may not be that well versed in opera, or is coming to see Susan Sarandon, or to see Prince, (laughter) you never know. And I think I remember the applause being somewhat muted, and thinking, oh my goodness, what’s going on there? And I think people were just in such a state of, what just happened, that applause didn’t necessarily seem appropriate, and yet they wanted to show their appreciation for what they had just witnessed.
KC: That’s a fascinating point, Donita. I hadn’t thought about it so much, but I do remember that same feeling, when the curtain finally goes down, after Sister Helen sings that a capella prayer, quiet, and then the lights go out, and, yeah, the feeling is not celebratory; it’s somehow one of catharsis, and the feeling of an incredible experience that’s just been had. Fascinating that you would point that out.
DV: Yeah, there were so many moments. I mean... Oh, of course: I also sang with Teddi Hanslowe, Theodora Hanslowe. She was also Sister Helen, and I just remember this one moment of transition, where she’s holding a G, (singing) “By and by...” (speaking) And it just goes on forever, and there’s this whole thing happening, and I would hold onto that note as sort of an emotional center while all of this, everything else was going on around it. And you found little touchpoints in the opera where if... Because you never knew how it was going to hit. Sometimes I could just, sing my stuff and be, now, what am I going to have for breakfast tomorrow? And sometimes I’d be like, the world needs change! And who knows what would bring that on, right? You’d hear somebody sniffle at a place that you don’t normally hear somebody sniffle, and all of a sudden you’re in your feelings, and going, “I have to sing.” (laughs) It’s... Yeah. It was really cool.
KC: So you would’ve had two different directors, then. Joe Mantello directed it here in San Francisco, and then you mentioned Kentucky and somewhere else.
DV: It was Detroit and... Tulsa? No, not Tulsa. Yeah, anyway, but yes.
KC: That would’ve been the Leonard Foglia production.
DV: Yes. Oh, Leonard.
KC: Do you have any memories about the differences between those?
DV: All I remember... I remember the boxes, (laughs) and nobody could hear anything. And Patrick Summers, bless his heart, would be like, “You can see the stick, can’t you?” (laughter) And I just remember wanting... I was like, “Yes, and also it’s really helpful to be able to hear the orchestra at this particular moment.”
KC: I remember very well. You’re referring to the sort of a box structure, was almost like a dollhouse kind of arrangement that everyone was in during many parts of Dead Man Walking, especially the big ensemble scenes, where everyone’s -- not being able to hear anything, except themselves. (laughs)
DV: And that’s where you could... I remember having to tell Leonard, or -- it wasn’t me. It may have been me. I think all of us at some point were like, “Leonard, we can’t sing upstage. We’re not mic-ed.” Because he’s a Broadway guy, right? And so he would (laughs) have us singing upstage, and he’d be like, “The mics will pick it up.” “We’re not mic-ed.” “Oh, okay, let’s rethink that staging.”
KC: You’re talking about Joe Mantello, who did the production in San Francisco.
DV: Oh, yes, I’m sorry.
KC: Broadway guy. And, the whole experience of doing an opera was quite a new thing for him. We did a little panel discussion back in those days and -- about that, how different it was, the fact that... Terrence McNally -- also, of course, a Broadway guy -- commented on that -- about the fact that maybe they have tryouts out of town, and they have endless previews before you finally open, and it’s not like that in the opera world.
DV: No, it’s not. It should be. (laughs)
KC: You just have to get the show on the road.
DV: Yeah, yeah.
KC: So have you thought about Dead Man Walking in all this time? It’s probably a surprise to think that it’s been 25 years (laughs) since the world premiere.
DV: Oh, but it was just yesterday. As I mentioned, I work in racial equity, and for a while one of my deep areas was going to be criminal justice reform, criminal court reform. Anyway, and so this idea of forgiveness, recidivism, the factors around the people who are in a carceral situation, it was always wonderful to be a part of that world, and to be a part of opening up conversations that we need more of today, even, to have places in which people see the same thing, and then have an opportunity to think on it, and to feel on it, and to talk to other people about it, and to understand why they both feel justified in saying, “I was right.”
KC: Did you have any interaction with Sister Helen during all this time?
DV: Oh, gosh. I think she... I mean, she was around a lot, but she was mostly with Susan, and –
KC: And Flicka, probably.
DV: Yeah, so she was with the stars a lot. (laughter) But, you know, the moments that we had together as a cast with her were all just really lovely, and I remember just being in awe of her, and of her doing something that other people had done before, but she was doing it out loud, and the bravery that that takes, at that point, and now how much more brave do we need to be to bear witness to this struggle.
KC: Right. I remember her saying back then that what got her into this was her discovery that there’s a direct connection between poverty and death row, and that sort of motivated her to become an activist.
DV: Yeah, there’s a thing that is referred to as the school to prison pipeline, and the fact that a lot of our schools are built in the spirit of prisons, like the same kind of construction, the same sort of materials, and, I mean, once you’re used to those pathways that lead only in one direction, very hard surfaces, very industrial, it... We need more joy and beauty in our world so that we don’t recreate harshness.
KC: What a wonderful thing to say. Donita.
DV: Yeah, I deliberately sat in front of this mural. The Philanthropy New York is housed in the Ford Foundation, and I was like, let’s sit someplace joyful, for many reasons. Also just because of the beauty. (laughs)
KC: Well, I’m so glad that you were available. I just enjoyed talking with you so much. It’s really fascinating to think back on those days, and – it was 25 years ago.
DV: Wow. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for thinking of me, and I hope that the work continues to bring people into conversation.
KC: I’m sure it will. It’s going to be fascinating. Thank you much, Donita. It’s great.
DV: Thank you, Kip.
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To see Ms. Volkwijn’s full performance history at San Francisco Opera: https://archive.sfopera.com/donita-volkwijn